Now that the forum on bitcoin.sourceforge.net is catching on, we really
should look for somewhere that freehosts full blown forum software. The
bitweaver forum feature is just too lightweight. I assume the "Forum"
tab on the homepage can link out to wherever the forum is hosted.
I've seen projects that have major following just from forum talk and
pie-in-the-sky planning without even having any code yet. Having a lot
of forum talk gives a project more presence on the net, more search
hits, makes it look big, draws new users in, helps solve support
questions, hashes out what features are most of wanted.
It would be a big plus if it could support SSL, at least for the login
page if not sitewide. Multiple people on the forum have expressed
interest in TOR/I2P, and those users need SSL because a lot of TOR exit
nodes are probably password scrapers run by identity thieves. A lot of
the core interest in Bitcoin is going to be from the privacy crowd.
Any ideas where we can get a free forum? Maybe we should look at where
some other projects have their forums hosted for ideas where to look.
Forum
Private email with Martti Malmi (sirius-m) · 11 messages · from 5 November 2009 · with Satoshi Nakamoto, mmalmi@cc.hut.fi
Read in Satoshi Mail Archive source
Do you think anonymous people are looking to be completely stealth, as in never connect once without TOR so nobody knows they use bitcoin, or just want to switch to TOR before doing any transactions? It's just if you want to be completely stealth that you'd have to go through the -proxy -addnode manual seeding. It would be very easy to fumble that up; if you run bitcoin normally to begin with it immediately automatically starts connecting.
The people who are interested in being stealthy tend to be more
technically able, and they probably don't have a problem following the
instructions to get perfect secrecy. Of course there could be a
connect-button in the UI that needs to be clicked before use, but the
tradeoff is that the UI becomes less straightforward for the average
user.
It would be a big plus if it could support SSL, at least for the login page if not sitewide. Multiple people on the forum have expressed interest in TOR/I2P, and those users need SSL because a lot of TOR exit nodes are probably password scrapers run by identity thieves. A lot of the core interest in Bitcoin is going to be from the privacy crowd. Any ideas where we can get a free forum? Maybe we should look at where some other projects have their forums hosted for ideas where to look.
One option would be ning.com. Ning.com is a popular community site and
many users who already have an account wouldn't need to register a new
account. Example: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/. This seems to
support SSL.
Another option would be to relocate the whole site to some place where
we can run Drupal or TikiWiki. I've been thinking of buying virtual
server or web hosting for the exchange service sometime soon, and if
the platform allows for two separate accounts, we could run the site
there too. The CMS and its database can be always copied and relocated
to a new web host if needed.
I made a ning.com site for testing: bitcoin.ning.com. At least it's
there to get Google hits, even if we didn't use it.
Now that the forum on bitcoin.sourceforge.net is catching on, we really should look for somewhere that freehosts full blown forum software. The bitweaver forum feature is just too lightweight. I assume the "Forum" tab on the homepage can link out to wherever the forum is hosted. I've seen projects that have major following just from forum talk and pie-in-the-sky planning without even having any code yet. Having a lot of forum talk gives a project more presence on the net, more search hits, makes it look big, draws new users in, helps solve support questions, hashes out what features are most of wanted. It would be a big plus if it could support SSL, at least for the login page if not sitewide. Multiple people on the forum have expressed interest in TOR/I2P, and those users need SSL because a lot of TOR exit nodes are probably password scrapers run by identity thieves. A lot of the core interest in Bitcoin is going to be from the privacy crowd. Any ideas where we can get a free forum? Maybe we should look at where some other projects have their forums hosted for ideas where to look.
I'm not really a fan of that type of forum layout. The thread list only
fits about 4 threads on a page, posts are treated like news articles or
blog posts with reply comments at the bottom. It's more of a social
networking site, not really conducive to technical discussion.
I'm thinking phpBB or IPB or similar. One line of text per thread,
small fonts, efficient use of vertical space. Most people are already
familiar with the interface.
mmalmi@cc.hut.fi wrote:I made a ning.com site for testing: bitcoin.ning.com. At least it's there to get Google hits, even if we didn't use it. > Now that the forum on bitcoin.sourceforge.net is catching on, we really > should look for somewhere that freehosts full blown forum software. > The bitweaver forum feature is just too lightweight. I assume the > "Forum" tab on the homepage can link out to wherever the forum is > hosted. > > I've seen projects that have major following just from forum talk and > pie-in-the-sky planning without even having any code yet. Having a lot > of forum talk gives a project more presence on the net, more search > hits, makes it look big, draws new users in, helps solve support > questions, hashes out what features are most of wanted. > > It would be a big plus if it could support SSL, at least for the login > page if not sitewide. Multiple people on the forum have expressed > interest in TOR/I2P, and those users need SSL because a lot of TOR exit > nodes are probably password scrapers run by identity thieves. A lot of > the core interest in Bitcoin is going to be from the privacy crowd. > > Any ideas where we can get a free forum? Maybe we should look at where > some other projects have their forums hosted for ideas where to look.
I installed a TikiWiki on my VPS at 174.143.149.98. SSL is currently
enabled with a self-signed certificate. Admin password is the same as
in the Bitweaver. How about using this as the site platform? Maybe we
can make bitcoin.org or at least bitcoin.sf.net point there?
mmalmi@cc.hut.fi wrote:I installed a TikiWiki on my VPS at 174.143.149.98. SSL is currently enabled with a self-signed certificate. Admin password is the same as in the Bitweaver. How about using this as the site platform? Maybe we can make bitcoin.org or at least bitcoin.sf.net point there?
What do you see as the benefits of switching the wiki?
Some I can think of:
SSL
get away from sourceforge's unreliable hosting
everything not logged by sourceforge
The forum feature is about as weak as bitweaver. We need a full blown
forum software for that.
My priority right now is to get a forum going, either phpBB or similar.
What do you think of the zetaboards option? Should we go ahead with that?
What do you see as the benefits of switching the wiki? Some I can think of: SSL get away from sourceforge's unreliable hosting everything not logged by sourceforge
I think the biggest advantage is having a single site so you don't
need a separate account for the wiki and the forum, and the
functionalities are also nicely integrated with the main site itself.
Also being ad-free is a plus.
The forum feature is about as weak as bitweaver. We need a full blown forum software for that.
How about Drupal's forum functionality? Address:
https://174.143.149.98/drupal/. The CMS in general looks better and
simpler than TikiWiki. If the forum's not good enough, then we can of
course use a specialized forum software like phpBB.
My priority right now is to get a forum going, either phpBB or similar. What do you think of the zetaboards option? Should we go ahead with that?
Otherwise fine, but the ads and the lack of SSL are a minus.
That's a good idea to go in a more web-publishing CMS type direction
like Drupal. That's a better fit and can produce a better looking
website than a wiki. I think I was wrong about wiki. Only a few
specific people will do any website design work and those people can go
ahead and have a separate login. In that case, login integration with
the forum doesn't matter much. For security, I'd almost rather have a
different login than be constantly checking the forum with the same
login that could pwn the website.
Drupal's forum is less bad than the wikis, but still a long way from
something I would want to use.
zetaboards pros and cons:
pros:
- we don't have to worry about bandwidth
- they handle the backend management and security patches
con:
- lack of SSL
- lack of privacy, everything is logged
- lack of control over the php code for customization
- no CAPTCHA, and if they add one later it might be unacceptable flash
- ads (could pay to get rid of them later if we care enough)
- there's always the risk they abruptly cancel the site for some petty
reason
mmalmi@cc.hut.fi wrote:> What do you see as the benefits of switching the wiki? > Some I can think of: > SSL > get away from sourceforge's unreliable hosting > everything not logged by sourceforge I think the biggest advantage is having a single site so you don't need a separate account for the wiki and the forum, and the functionalities are also nicely integrated with the main site itself. Also being ad-free is a plus. > The forum feature is about as weak as bitweaver. We need a full blown > forum software for that. How about Drupal's forum functionality? Address: https://174.143.149.98/drupal/. The CMS in general looks better and simpler than TikiWiki. If the forum's not good enough, then we can of course use a specialized forum software like phpBB. > My priority right now is to get a forum going, either phpBB or similar. > What do you think of the zetaboards option? Should we go ahead with > that? Otherwise fine, but the ads and the lack of SSL are a minus.
mmalmi@cc.hut.fi wrote:How about Drupal's forum functionality? Address: https://174.143.149.98/drupal/. The CMS in general looks better and simpler than TikiWiki. If the forum's not good enough, then we can of course use a specialized forum software like phpBB.
Another issue I thought of with zetaboards: most free forum sites won't
let you export the user account database if you want to move. I don't
know why I don't see any other software projects using a free forum, but
I have to assume there might be a reason we would discover later.
If you can install phpBB3 on your VPS, that's probably the better option.
From what I've seen on other forums, if the cost of bandwidth becomes
an issue, a small Google Adwords (text links) at the top generates more
than the cost of bandwidth even for very low value traffic like gaming.
This would be much higher value traffic well targeted for high paying
gold merchant keywords and VPN hosts. It could eventually be a valuable
revenue stream you wouldn't want to give away to some free site.
I want to pre-announce some of the features in version 0.2 on the forum
and try to get some anticipation going. Even if hardly anyone else is
posting, I have seen project forums where most of the posts are the
author announcing what's going on with the latest changes. Users can
see progress going on, see that it's improving and supported and not
abandonware. It's a little like a blog in that case, but easier for
users to use it as a searchable FAQ and better organized. Whenever I
google search software questions, most of the hits are forum posts.
I installed both phpBB3 and Simple Machines Forum, which are kind of
the market leaders among the open source forums. SMF's interface looks
better on the first look, especially the admin panel. What do you
think, shall we go with SMF or phpBB3?
That's great, this is going to fun! I'll research what people say about
the two.
mmalmi@cc.hut.fi wrote:I installed both phpBB3 and Simple Machines Forum, which are kind of the market leaders among the open source forums. SMF's interface looks better on the first look, especially the admin panel. What do you think, shall we go with SMF or phpBB3?